Duggars snark

So, I know I'm late to the show, but finally watching it. And I have to say the similarities to Christian programs for troubled teens, the way things operate, it's just mirrors of each other. I love that they featured the snark communities.
I am a survivor of several programs that included behavior modification which is a nice term for basically breaking kids down and brainwashing them. They use the same techniques,the same shame, the abject horrendous "discipline", the deprivation of self. I spent three years in such programs, although not all of them were Christian.
But it's interesting and of course terrifying to see my reality reflected in this manner. My friends who are also survivors of many sorts of places like Roloff homes, Bethel boys and girls home, etc tell me this is basically the groundwork for those. It is super triggering but I feel they are doing a balanced in depth look into what makes them (the Duggare and other IFB households) who they are.
Which just so happen to line up with torture and brain washing techniques. Whoduthunkit.
Would love to talk to others about this. Especially any snarkers who may have experienced similar scenarios growing up.

BY MOISES MENDEZ II JUNE 6, 2023 5:20 PM EDT
Amazon Prime’s new docuseries Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets shines a light on the titular family of reality TV fame and the Christian organization to which they are tied, the Institute of Basic Life Principles (IBLP). Much of what is revealed in the documentary is not necessarily breaking news; Josh Duggar’s history of abuse allegations, for example, has made countless headlines. But the average person who might have occasionally watched their popular TLC show, 19 Kids and Counting, might not have known until watching Shiny Happy People the extent of the scandals within the family and the larger IBLP organization.
A community online, however, has been raising these issues for years. Their efforts take various forms across different social media platforms. The best known venue is DuggarsSnark, a “snark subreddit” on Reddit, an online forum dedicated to criticizing the family. Snark subreddits, which also exist for popular TikTokers, wives of major celebrities, YouTubers, and other public figures, are meant to foster a community of like-minded people who dislike a particular person or group of famous people or feel a responsibility to shed light on unsavory ways in which they are using their platforms.

Unofficial Online Watchdogs

Another forum where these “snarkers” congregate is YouTube. And in the case of the Duggars, most notably in the comments section of a channel called Fundie Fridays. The page, which has over 328,000 subscribers, was created by Jen Bryant, who talks about Christian Fundamentalism in her videos while doing her makeup. Bryant has published informative videos on Christian YouTuber sister duo Girl Defined, TLC’s Sister Wives, and the Duggar family. She closely followed Josh Duggar’s 2022 trial (which ended with the eldest Duggar child being sentenced to 12 years in prison for receiving and possessing child pornography). Because of her expertise in the online community, she appeared as a talking head in Shiny Happy People.
Bryant creates informational videos on different topics related to famous fundamentalist Christian figures, highlighting what she considers to be hypocritical behaviors when compared to their professed values. She has videos that discuss Bill Gothard, the disgraced founder of IBLP, who has been accused of sexual harassment by former female congregants (which he has previously denied), as well as videos about Michael and Debi Pearl, a couple who wrote an IBLP endorsed-book about how to “discipline” a child by spanking or using a rod, and the Quiverfull movement, which promotes large families. When she uploaded her first video on the Duggars, it became her most popular video to date, with over two million views.
Bryant and the legion of devoted snarkers online have become unofficial watchdogs for celebrities and public figures in the DuggaIBLP case, trying to warn fans about the dark side of the content they are consuming and, as a result, supporting. And as her appearance in the documentary demonstrates, some of these self-appointed watchdogs are as well-researched as they are loud, holding real power to help challenge those with powerful platforms. Cori Stern, one of the producers of the docuseries, tells TIME that the filmmakers found online communities to be “invaluable research resources” because, in some cases, they “acted like investigative reporters.”

The Difference Between Snarking and Bullying

To someone unfamiliar with the snarking community, their activities could be perceived as bullying (and they can sometimes veer into that territory). Still, moderators say that on top of having these communities for fun, some online groups like the Fundie Fridays community are attempting to dismantle unjust power structures. James Bryant, Jen’s husband and collaborator on her channel, tells TIME that the difference between snarking and bullying is that the former employs media and culture, to highlight more significant social concerns about the “trappings of evangelical Christianity.” As examples, he points to “using the Duggars as a springboard to talk about the stranglehold that evangelical Christianity has on the politics of many parts of this country” and the harmful effects of purity culture on young women, both discussed in the documentary. Snarking becomes bullying when it “starts focusing on individual people, not on the social constructs behind them,” James explains.
Outside of Fundie Fridays, the snark community has a wide reach online. The subreddit fundiesnarkuncensored has over 156,000 members, and the DuggarsSnark has 174,000 users. In an interview with TIME earlier this year, lead moderator Emily Rook said the subreddit’s primary goal is “sharing information and uncovering the lie that the Duggar family has put up.” This objective to uncover the real person (or people) behind an online persona is an aim that many other subredditors share. For the most part, Rook says, snarking is not serious; a lot of it is just jokes. But there are moments when the conversations veer into serious territory, as with Josh’s child sexual abuse scandal. Some members have found community there among other people with religious trauma or who come from extreme fundamentalist Christian backgrounds. For them, these forums serve as what Rook describes as a safe space for them to unpack those issues.
That unpacking is sometimes referred to as “deconstruction” in these communities. Jen Bryant says that snark communities have become “a landing pad for deconstructionists” to dismantle their religious beliefs and sort out their political views, and to some it’s “become an entire movement.” Their banding together to speak out against the autocratic rule of the IBLP is evident when the docuseries shows survivors using social media apps like TikTok to make their voices heard about the stringent lifestyles they led because of Gothard and his teachings. Many of the ex-IBLP members who appeared in the documentary say they’ve come to realize how oppressive the organization was, but they began to realize that they were able to use their voices online to free themselves. Shiny Happy People helped amplify their voices on a mainstream platform, bringing their concerns from the comments section to the masses.
Article linked here

[This is adapted from a comment here, but I thought it would make a good post.]
The quality of a fundie homeschool education is typically terrible. We all saw the ATI booklets in the docuseries. Some of us are intimately familiar with the quality of ATI, ACE, Abeka, Bob Jones, etc. So how do these Joshua Generation kids end up at Harvard, clerking for Supreme Court justices - positions that are hard to get even for well-educated, upper-class people?
Because there's a system set up for them.
This was alluded to very briefly in the documentary, when the Christian Homeschool Speech and Debate League was brought up. But they didn't really explain what was going on. So I'm going to do my best to explain it. However, I wasn't actually raised in this community. I was raised adjacent to it. People who lived it, please correct me or elaborate.
Not all fundie homeschoolers totally neglect their children's educations. Many fundies are first-generation converts who have real educations and successful careers outside the home. They may not be well-equipped to educate children, but they do understand what children need to know to succeed in the real world. Part of the reason the Duggar kids are so uneducated is that JB and Meech are also not well-educated. But that's not always the case. Some homeschool kids end up getting pretty rigorous educations, at least by fundie homeschool standards. Especially earlier-born boys. The Jeub family is a good example of a family that is like this. They're highly involved in homeschooling and homeschool speech and debate circles. They produce curriculum and run summer camps. Or at least, they did. Most of this seems to have been scrubbed from the internet, and the Jeubs now run a "glamping" business and don't about Christian homeschooling or debate at all anymore.
Many homeschooling families don't stick strictly to one curriculum. They might use a primary one, but they'll supplement with others they feel are stronger in certain subjects or for certain age groups. One thing they often supplement with, and that is emphasized in some curriculums, is a "classical education." This is an education that emphasizes grammar, logic, and rhetoric. It usually uses classical literature, philosophy, and theology to support this education. Math and science are not emphasized. In a classical education, math focuses on arithmetic, algebra, and geometry. Science is usually limited to the history and philosophy of science, rather than scientific concepts themselves. You might learn about Isaac Newton, you might even read his writings, but you're not actually gonna learn physics or calculus the way you would in a typical education. History is often not explicitly taught, with the justification that the curriculum itself is a historical education.
This emphasis on rhetoric and logic - always contextualized within a Christian philosophy and theology - is where you get Christian homeschool speech and debate. It's very similar to public school speech and debate. Here is the NCFCA's resolutions for LD and Policy debate this year. At a glance, these seem like normal topics. The LD resolution seems pretty typical. You can see where that emphasis on a classical education comes in, but that's not unusual in LD. What sticks out to me are the recommended resources under the policy resolution. They're almost all right-wing think tanks. The other thing that sticks out to me is that they just hand you everything. Topicality, background, relevant sources, and arguments. Even when they're pretending to be promoting logic and reasoning, they're telling you how to think. Think critically - but only within these narrow confines.
The kids who participate in this kind of thing are college-bound. And there are colleges set up to receive them. One such college is Baylor University in Texas. Baylor University is a private Baptist university. It is a "real" college, an R1 research school, and a fairly prestigious one. It is very welcoming to Christian homeschoolers. They have pages on their website guiding homeschooling parents through the process of application, including providing a "transcript" template. (Their example of a completed transcript includes an "apologetics" credit.) They accept the Classical Learning Test in lieu of the SAT or ACT. The CLT is a standardized test based on a classical education, described above. Here's an example test. If you ever took the SAT or ACT, you might notice that this looks a lot easier.
Baylor University caters heavily to this demographic. Their core curriculum includes chapel requirements and courses on theology and scripture, but notably does not include math or hard sciences. They have a "formal reasoning" requirement that can be fulfilled with an Intro to Logic class. It can also be fulfilled with a broad-review "theory of math" class that focuses on mathematical concepts for politics and business, like "the mathematics of elections," population growth models, and compound interest. Their "scientific method" requirement does require science classes, but there's no requirement for hard sciences like physics, chemistry, or biology. You can fulfill it with classes like "Exploring Environmental Issues" or "Earthquakes and Other Natural Disasters." (By the way, that "earthquakes" class is also offered at most public universities in Texas, where it is famously a blow-off class. It's basically just a NatGeo documentary about earthquakes and volcanos stretched across a semester.)
Baylor is a legitimately good school. It is a top choice of school for students interested in going into law. They have a nationally competitive policy debate team, a huge and highly supportive pre-law program, and their own law school with a direct-feeder program. Baylor pre-law students often end up at prestigious law schools, including Harvard and Yale. They also have a large network of highly involved, highly successful alumni. Check out their list of notable alumni on Wikipedia and notice just how long the "politics" section is.
If you are a Christian homeschooler looking to move into the world of law and government, Baylor is gonna give you that opportunity. They will give you the prestigious education necessary to move into that world without ever challenging your religious beliefs or setting you up to fail because your Baptist homeschool education never actually taught you how to do fractions.
I'm using Baylor as an example here because I know it best. There are quite a few universities like this. Wheaton, mentioned in the documentary, is one of them. I'm also using Baylor as an example because it's one of the biggest and most mainstream. You can't throw a rock in Texas without hitting a Baylor graduate. Plenty of normal people, even people who aren't religious, attend Baylor for the quality of the education. Baylor can be a gateway from the insular world of fundie homeschool into the real world.
Baylor is not an option for a lot of fundie homeschoolers. You are probably not gonna survive at Baylor - or even get into Baylor - if your only education was ATI wisdom booklets. (It also has exorbitantly expensive tuition.) But this is a viable way to get slingshotted into the halls of power with nothing but a fundamentalist homeschool education and a Christofascist political agenda.

Use this thread for discussion of the AMA with Cori Sheperd Stern at 2pm PST, June 6. That thread will be locked when Cori's is done to avoid further questions being asked but this will remain open during and after the AMA.
If possible, link or screenshot to the question/answer you're referencing so others can follow along and refer back to the other thread.

So recently I watched the Shiny Happy People documentary series about the Duggar Family and the IBLP church and I think it would be suuuuch a good topic for Olivia to cover in a slideshow considering how much tea there is to cover and the lore behind it. Also think Ethan would be really into it especially since they’ve been covering a lot of cult-ish, religious extremism type of stuff recently and I would love to hear his take on it! The story is insane and I haven’t really seen that many people talking about it outside of the Fundie snark community. Been actually obsessed with Olivia’s slideshows because she just knows the girliez and I think this topic would fit right in.

I’ve been on DuggarSnark for a loooong time, but this is the first time I’ve ever created a post. This subreddit helps me work through some of the trauma I went through as a kid, though I’m careful to remember that so many people had it far worse than I did. Still, I don’t have anyone in my life that I can talk to about that trauma in great detail, no one that understands from experience the way so many of you do. I think that’s why I spend so much time here. The discussions have helped me articulate what was wrong with it and why it has caused me so much hurt. I get angry when I see it’s still happening and I feel helpless to affect change on this front. This subreddit really demonstrates that there are so many of you going through the same thing and hope is not lost. I tried therapy and that did help with the physical abuse, neglect, and early parentification, but I ultimately felt judged for for being atheist and stopped going.
I don’t normally have this much time to spend online, but I’ve been on Grand Jury Duty for a while and I have so much downtime, Reddit and Youtube have been keeping me entertained. After watching SHP and exhausting all the content in DuggarSnark and FundieSnarkUncensored this week, I started branching out and finding some new discussions on these topics on Youtube. I already follow FundieFridays, Jordan and McKay (I know they’re exMormon, but a lot of the same experiences overlap), and some others. This weekend, I discovered a couple new YouTubers (new to me):
Where the Wild Bee Wings
Ex-Fundie Diaries
Is it appropriate to ask for more recommendations here? Is that allowed? If so, what are your favorite content creators or subreddits you like to follow that discuss the harms of patriarchy, purity culture, religious extremism, early parentification, and homophobia? I’m especially interested in the more professional and insightful creators with actual education in psychology, religion, or sociology but of course I LOVE good snark too.

Hello,
This is a super long shot / random question.
In 1998/1999, my family volunteered to live at a facility outside Indianapolis, India, USA -- I was about 10 at the time.
This facility housed Russian orphans during the school year. It was lead by a Christian organization/cult that we were members of (not anymore). We helped with cleaning and such, you can read more in this post if you want.
Long story short, I made friends among the Russian boys there that I was unable to keep in touch with. Would there be any way to go about trying to track any of them down? I have this clip of some of them from their time in the cult's facility, and I know some of their first names. That's it.
This was a program associated with IBLP (Institute in Basic Live Principles) lead by Bill Gothard; the location in the USA was called South Campus; and it was at least in operation between 1998-2002, but perhaps a few years more than that. There was also a training center in Moscow, Russia.
I don't know what more info I can give, if any, but ask and I'll try to answer.

I was curious about how none of the Duggar Kids, or kids of really any fundie families I’ve followed have ever gone into the military, like I guess I thought out of that many kids, at least 1 would. I stumbled upon a comment in here or one of the other snark pages that military service is banned in IBLP or fundamentalist circles. Does anyone know if this is true? I couldn’t find any information on it.

‼️Trigger Warning - post and conversation may dive inside topics related to abuse, grooming, religion, CSAM, and trauma.
I know conversation has been busy on DuggarsSnark regarding the new Prime doc, Shiny Happy People. It focuses a lot on the Duggars and the IBLP. There are so many layers of abuse from sexual to emotional to financial to physical to spiritual.
The LaBrants are not the Duggars, but I do consider them Fundie-lite in the ways of which the view the world from their religious perspective.
*Now controlling Ev’s education and limiting her world view with their particular brand of Christian heavy homeschooling curriculum. (Abeka curriculum). Not all homeschooling is bad, but curriculum that narrows one’s perception of the world is scary. Disguising this as parent choice and feeling that facts are dangerous is scarier. Colonsac
*Using all their children financially to provide for the family, and children growing up to believe they do not have the power to stop it. Colonsac All 4 kids, especially Ev.
*Gender roles and stereotypes. Men are in charge, women are subservient breeders. Men are the true saviors of their family. Colonsac
*The Republican party’s infiltration of extreme Christian beliefs impacting ALL, in a country where we have freedom to believe what we want. They even admit that this was the aim and goal. Look at Colon’s anti-choice doc Gov Sarah Huckabee Sanders who just did away with child labor laws in her state
The Duggars are just the way in on this topic, but it’s about so much more. If you’re a lurker or a snarker, please please please do not allow far right wing pseudo-Christians to raise your kids or teach them.
There’s a lot. There’s a lot I’m probably even neglecting to say. This documentary made me sick. It goes far beyond the Duggars.
Just curious and eager to discuss!

Did Jim Holt really beat his wife and kids. I first read on Duggar Snark were a couple of restraining orders against him and Bobye is divorcing him. Any clarification NOT from KJ would be helpful thanks.

Hi friends!
We are happy to announce that we will be hosting an AMA with Cori Sheperd Stern, executive producer of "Shiny Happy People," this Tuesday, June 6, at 2pm Pacific time.
In the meantime, if you haven't yet, check out the docuseries available internationally on Prime Video, and be thinking of questions you may want to ask.
(for clarifying questions like "Did I hear them say that X" or "Who is Y?" please post them on our Questions Thread for other users to answer)
Please keep in mind that our guests are necessarily going to be limited in the things they can share due to legal and ethical obligations. Please be respectful of their decision to not answer a question.
Also, while they may be familiar with our sub in concept, it is doubtful they are familiar with our nicknames or acronyms. Avoid using phrases like "TTH" or "SOTDRT" (if anyone uses the term "OfNostrils" I will fucking call the cyberpolice).
See you all Tuesday!
- The Mod Team

I’m new to the whole Duggar snark fandom (I know! So late!) I just finished Shiny Happy People and I’m obsessed with knowing more.
It seems like a lot of you all hate cousin Amy? She seem like a good person?

In Shiny Happy People, one of the survivors talked about an incident where Gothard took her into an office to assault her behind closed doors. However the attempt was aborted because they walked in on a male staffer who Gothard did not expect to be present.
Did anyone else get the impression that the identity of that male staffer was David Waller? The story is consistent with the allegation that came out last year from another IBLP survivor, who called out David for standing by while Gothard assaulted his victims the next room over.
I’m surprised that the documentary did not mention that Pest’s brother-in-law was also the director of ATI….he is directly responsible for the homeschooling curriculum that was discussed in the documentary. I hope that if there’s a sequel, David role’s as ATI director and his personal relationships are investigated more thoroughly. I think there are a ton of skeletons yet to be discovered, unfortunately.
As an aside - as the documentary talked about the role of a fundie wife and a bit about the Pest-Anna marriage, David’s marriage to Priscilla (Anna’s sister) also skeeves me out. A man who literally wrote the book on victim blaming (in his capacity as director of ATI) and with a history of defending high profile sexual predators (both Gothard and Pest) isn’t good for anyone, but he especially shouldn’t be with a woman who self reports cognitive disabilities. People with disabilities are at higher risk of sexual violence than people without. Here is a recent sermon where he uses the r-slur to describe cognitively disabled people and how he likes them because they’re unquestioningly joyful…..yikes.

I (ex-fundie) watched the whole thing tonight with my roommate (who also had a traumatic childhood and has recently been diagnosed with C-PTSD but not for religious reasons - and even she was taken with how messed up it all was). It made me angry, sad, and happy at the same time. I have a lot of feelings right now. I'm considering maybe deleting Reddit for a few days while I take some time to process all the trauma it brought to the surface.
I know a lot of other people in this sub are ex-fundie and ex-IBLP and you probably had similar experiences watching the doco. If your reaction has been anything like mine, seeing all these posts come up in your feed today has probably not brought you the joy that DuggarsSnark usually does. The emotions are very raw. I just wanted to create a safe space especially for the survivors where we could dump all our feelings.
Hugs to everyone <3 Please look after yourselves this weekend.